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[post:519#5073]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
Devil Doll, do you have any recommendations on what to do when MKVExtract breaks an episode up and gives me an AC3 audio segment, with a new icon--and Switch Sound File Converter refuses to recognize such a thing? If I use Switch to open the folder in which I have stored the segments, it shows nothing there. This may be a vast oversimplification, but as I see it, AAC audio is OK, AC3 is no good. I'm guessing that one of these programs may be able to convert from AC3 to AAC, but I don't see such an option within MKVExtract, and if Switch doesn't even recognize AC3 audio segments, what can I do? Has this problem occured to you, and if so, what did you do about it? |
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[post:519#5075]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
Switch does convert AC3 on my PC. It may not register itself in Windows as being the default application for processing AC3 (and doesn't add a context menu entry "Convert with Switch" for AC3) but if you open an AC3 file with Switch (via context menu "Open with..." in Windows) you can convert the AC3 file to MP3 (or any other format you have a codec available for Switch). Edited on 06/06/2011 01:26 PM. |
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[post:519#5076]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
OK, it took me awhile to find the drop-down menu, but that wasn't so complicated. I have been using the simplest possible route through the VirtualDubMod process, and had never made any significant changes from your original instructions. I wasn't expecting anything regarding Switch to be located on a display of my own documents, since I saw that as something seperate from Switch. My first MP3 'Convert' is underway as I write this, and I'm sure it will play just fine. Sorry to bother you, and thanks for your help. |
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[post:519#5077]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
I don't consider this a bother. Feel free to ask any time. Edited on 06/06/2011 04:53 PM. |
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[post:519#5078]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
Actually, I find that after 'Converting' the MP3 file, it has become 'muted'--I get no audio at all. Switch showed a green checkmark to denote a successful conversion, but I can't get it to play. Output format was .wav. I double-checked to make certain that my speakers hadn't been left in mute mode, and they have not. I thought, 'maybe this can't be played until it is recombined with the other video and subtitle segments in VirtualDubMod', so I set that up and ran a test, but still there is no audio. Is there some additional special step which I must take? Edited on 06/06/2011 05:44 PM. |
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[post:519#5079]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
What the-- I was going to say that the MP3 conversion was muted as well, but I thought I heard something over the hum of my computer's cooling fan. I turned the speaker volume up to maximum, and found that there is indeed some audio--but it is garbled and I cannot understand it. There were definitely voices and music at one time; maybe they have become 'stretched' and would now be out of sync with the video. It is the same with the .wav conversion. So, both AC3 conversions are at an extremely low volume and have become distorted and useless. Edited on 06/06/2011 06:02 PM. |
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[post:519#5081]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
Gnlpf... CAR lost my complete posting by producing an error message... Edited on 06/06/2011 08:00 PM. |
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[post:519#5083]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
When I attempt to play the AC3 stream, Switch begins ‘Decoding Audio Stream’, even though I clicked ‘Play’ rather than ‘Convert’. Again, I get the message ‘Format may not be supported’. Once Decoding is finished, a ‘Play Window’ appears and the audio plays, but again it is garbled and useless. Perhaps we are stuck. |
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[post:519#5084]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
As said in my previous posting, Switch doesn't natively support AC3 but relies on DirectX to hopefully decode the audio stream correctly (regardless whether you "Play" or "Encode" the result), so "Format may not be supported" is correct in so far as Switch doesn't know for sure which audio filters your DirectX installation supports. Edited on 06/07/2011 11:32 AM. |
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[post:519#5086]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
Media Player Classic seems to play the AC3 audio segment normally, so no trouble there. I must be looking in the wrong place, because I don't see any FFv or FFa icons. We're still talking about MPC, right? Should they be at the bottom right, near the Volume icon? |
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[post:519#5088]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
It looks like MPC is playing the audio on your PC using a different method than Switch and produces different results; this would also explain why you're not seeing the two icons. So for this particular case, let's try bypassing Switch and see what else we can do to get the audio into any usable format. DirectShowSource ("<filename>.mkv", audio=no) Let's change this to DirectShowSource ("<filename>.mkv", audio=yes) and save the script file to something like "with_audio.avs". Edited on 06/07/2011 04:32 PM. |
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[post:519#5090]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
I did this, but what I got is not encouraging: The audio is still garbled and at a very low volume--it seems to be stretched out so that it takes far longer than it should, the opposite of the 'chipmunk speak' effect that happens when dialogue is sped up. And now the video seems to only show certain frames, then leap ahead to other ones while ignoring all those inbetween—like a collection of still photos instead of animation. I’m just guessing at the numbers, but it’s like frame one is shown for several seconds, then frame 50 likewise, then frame 100, etc. |
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[post:519#5091]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
Any buffering issues by using AviSynth would be understandable (depending on the processing power and RAM of your PC) and acceptable (as we wouldn't use the data in real time during the encoding process). But if the audio is still garbled then Switch and AviSynth apparently are using the same interface and suffer from the same issue. Edited on 06/08/2011 01:36 PM. |
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[post:519#5093]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
I find that on Windows Media Player there is still low volume and a little skipping about, but not nearly as bad. If it were just a bit better I would be satisfied. I still don't see the FFv and FFa icons. As far as I can remember, I have never successfully converted an AC3 audio stream; they use a different icon from AAC, so I'm pretty sure I would have noticed such a thing, and like I said Switch wouldn't even recognize them until you told me about the 'all files' trick. The CCCP Low Volume entry doesn’t make any mention of the distorted, stretched-out effect, which has been present in every attempt I have made to convert AC3 streams, so I think this is something different. So, perhaps a new AC3 filter is what I need. |
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[post:519#5095]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
Hm, you could now install the AC3 codec mentioned above. But I don't know whether it will be used via DirectShow then, and I installed my AC3 codec as part of CCCP apparently so our PC configurations are different enough to only trust your eyes and not my imagination. Were you able to activate that blue icon (the DirectX configuration for handling audio) then you could see what your DirectX currently does with AC3 streams, whether you have an alternative on your PC already (without installing anything, on my PC this is the case!) and whether an additional installation actually changed the DirectX configuration. So how do we get that blue icon on your screen?
- - - - - Side note: I upgraded my Switch from 4.02 to 4.14, just in case. Still no native AC3 support there. Edited on 06/08/2011 10:40 PM. |
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[post:519#5097]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
Looks like my Build Number is 6.4.9.0—Copyright 2002-2006 Gabest. At least five years old! Instead of ‘ffdshow Audio Decoder’ I get ‘MPEG-1 Audio Decoder’. I click on that, and there is no ‘Tray, dialog & paths’, instead there is a display of ‘Properties’, then ‘Settings’. Among these are ‘Output Sample Format’ which is set at ‘PCM 16 Bit’, then ‘AC3 Decoder Settings’ which is set at ‘Decode to Speakers’, DTS Decoder Settings, also set at ‘Decode to Speakers’, and ‘AAC Decoder Settings’, set at ‘Downmix to Stereo’. Edited on 06/09/2011 05:39 PM. |
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[post:519#5098]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
I wanted to see the Audio Input handling (from AC3 to the Media Player), not the Audio Output handling (from the Media Player to the speakers in already uncompressed audio, i. e. ↗PCM). Also note that "↗MPEG-1 Layer 3" is what you know under the name of "MP3". |
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[post:519#5100]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
I started playing a successful AVI conversion which has an MP3 audio stream (MPEG-1 Audio layer 3, to be exact) using MPC. Under Play/Filters I get 'ffdshow MPEG4 Video Decoder, but the Audio Decoder remains MPEG-1, same as before. Edited on 06/10/2011 11:49 AM. |
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[post:519#5102]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
My main problem is that I can't see what's happening on your PC, and the more negative tests we do the more questions I have. Edited on 06/11/2011 12:32 PM. |
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[post:519#5103]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
"Decoding Audio Stream" was the exact wording here; there is no mention of DirectX. |
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[post:519#5105]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
If your Switch doesn't use DirectX for decoding AC3 then installing an AC3 filter for DirectX would not solve your problem. That's the very reason for finding out who is decoding your AC3 stream - to avoid an installation that wouldn't make any difference in your current case:
The same goes for MPC: It probably wouldn't hurt to get a more recent version but as your old MPC already handles the AC3 stream correctly while Switch does not, Switch (and as such the whole conversion procedure) wouldn't profit from getting a new MPC. The only feature a more recent MPC might give you is an easier access to the ffdshow configuration for audio filters (in order to check whether the icon's visibility is set to "hidden" on your PC by this configuration), the one that on my PC handles AC3 when being played by Switch, Windows Media Player and MPC, proven by showing the blue "FFa" icon in the Windows task bar on my PC. If that's different on your PC and we don't know who handles your AC3 streams I can't give you a reasonable suggestion what to install. For clarity's sake: Wikipedia page ↗ffdshow has an image on the top right side. If you click on this image you get here. This is almost the configuration dialog I've been talking about. In the top bar you read "ffdshow video decoder configuration", and you can see a reddish-brown icon "FFv" on the left top corner. Its twin dialog "ffdshow audio decoder configuration" has a blue "FFa" icon () instead of a reddish "FFv" one. Unfortunately, the color of these icons is configurable within their own configuration (you see "Tray, dialog & paths" on the left side of this image as I described above), and even the display of these icons can be disabled by the same configuration. As long as I haven't seen your ffdshow configuration I can't tell whether you don't see the icon because its display is disabled or because ffdshow isn't used for decoding AC3. But that's exactly what we need to know before installing anything. So, as all else has failed, could you please try this: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/300132-Open-ffdshow-config-screen-without-opening-a-movie (best of luck for finding the path name). If you get that working you might want to manually create a new desktop icon with this command. Does your K-lite installation have anything like a configuration dialog that would define who is responsible for interpreting AC3 on your PC? CCCP is running on my PC, and as you have experienced how CCCP and K-lite won't like each other I can't simply install K-lite on my PC to see how that works. Different approach: You might want to try a separate tool for converting AC3 to MP3, such as http://www.videohelp.com/tools/AC3Tool. I haven't tried this though, and I don't know whether it works stand-alone or relies on anything on your PC. Edited on 06/12/2011 09:47 AM. |
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[post:519#5107]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
I was afraid that being the relatively computer-ignorant person that I am, I might have missed the FFv icon even though it was in a fairly obvious place, but having seen it on Wikipedia I can say with confidence that I've never seen that before. Could my AC3 Filter possibly have anything to do with this problem? If not, I suppose I will give AC3Tool a try. |
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[post:519#5109]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
To answer your question I would have to know which AC3 decoder is used in your PC... if it were invoked via DirectX then it would be a "filter" but there are other mechanisms a codec (= "coder / decoder") can be invoked by. That's the problem with "installing a codec" - you have to understand the type of codec in order to understand who will be able to make use of it, and where you'd have to configure this. Edited on 06/12/2011 08:59 PM. |
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[post:519#5111]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
The reason I made my first post on this topic was that I had downloaded a fansub, ‘VOTOMS: Alone Again’ and couldn’t get the audio to work. After you pointed out that I had seen the ffdshow icon in the past, I started playing an MKV fansub, chosen at random (‘Hoshizora’ ep. 8), and examined the Task Bar. Sure Enough, there was the ‘ffdshow audio decoder’ icon. I examined this episode under MediaInfo and found that it had A_AAC as its audio codec. I tried again with VOTOMS, and it definitely does not display the ffdshow icon; it, of course, has AC3 as its audio codec. |
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[post:519#5113]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
You found the blue icon! (Furuya and Gunsl1nger discussed a method to get that icon without requiring to play a video.)
Edited on 06/13/2011 02:35 PM. |
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[post:519#5115]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
Hey, I did something right! There is an AC3 entry, but its decoder is 'disabled' (there is nothing under 'details'). The only 'formats' which are not 'disabled' are AAC, AMR, True Audio, and AVIS (Avisynth). The drop-down list for AC3 lists 'Disabled' (again), 'liba52', and S/PDIF. Does this tell you anything? |
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[post:519#5116]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
On my PC, "liba52" is doing the AC3 decoding. (I also have ↗libavcodec as available alternative and I'm a bit surprised you don't get this as choice, but maybe liba52 will already do the trick for you.)
When doing your experiments and the blue icon appears, double-click it and select "Volume" (not the checkbox, instead click on the word "Volume" on the left side). A dialog should appear. Check "Show current volume levels". Is the loudness of the audio okay? If it is unusually low, check "Normalize". Does it get better? This isn't a perfect solution for permanent use but you might amplify the loudness of a particular audio stream through this dialog if necessary. And if none of the above suits you, the next alternative would be to install AC3filter. Or try looking for a configuration tool within your installed K-lite pack, and check whether K-lite has alternative AC3 codecs available. Edited on 06/13/2011 08:47 PM. |
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[post:519#5118]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
I ‘applied’ liba52 but find that nothing has changed. Both in WMP and MPC the sound is still messed-up and at very low volume, and there is no blue icon. I double-checked to make sure MPC hadn’t gone back to ‘disabled’ mode somehow, but it hasn’t and liba52 was still the codec of choice. When I click ‘Play’ with Switch, it went into ‘hourglass/please wait’ mode for several minutes then attempted ‘Decoding Audio File’. When it is finally ready it is as terrible as before—much worse than the audio I got when I played the episodes on WMP and MPC. I changed to S/PDIF but the results are the same with both WMP and MPC. I went looking in ‘All Programs/K-lite Codec Pack/Configuration’ and found ‘ffdshow’, ‘AC3Filter’, ‘Codec Tweak Tool’, ‘DirectVobSub’, ‘Divx Decoder’, ‘Haali Media Splitter’, and ‘Xvid Encoder’. There is also a ‘Tools’ section, but none of the names there are familiar. |
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[post:519#5119]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
If enabling "liba52" for processing AC3 within ffdshow doesn't make the blue icon appear then somewhere on your PC someone else is processing AC3 with higher priority than ffdshow, i. e. ffdshow isn't even asked to do this. Edited on 06/14/2011 08:53 PM. |
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[post:519#5121]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
K-lite Codec Pack/Configuration/ffdshow seems to be the same as before; S/PDIF is the codec of choice, just as when I last left. When I click on K-lite Codec Pack/Configuration/AC3Filter I get a stern warning: |
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[post:519#5123]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
So apparently you have only one ffdshow installation; that's good. Still, it isn't used for decoding AC3 so far. Edited on 06/15/2011 03:41 PM. |
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[post:519#5125]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
I have changed the AC3 codec setting back to liba52 from S/PDIF. When I disable AC3Filter the blue ffdshow icon is displayed in WMP, but the audio is still not quite acceptable. With Switch, however, I notice a change: as always, it attempts ‘decoding audio file’ but whereas previously the end result was much worse than what I got when I simply played the fansub with WMP or MPC, now the end results seems to be OK, except for one thing: all voices seem to have disappeared and only BGM and sound effects remain! Volume is still very low. Edited on 06/16/2011 06:37 PM. |
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[post:519#5127]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
You're doing a good job in reporting. Edited on 06/17/2011 01:12 AM. |
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[post:519#5128]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
I ran a search for ‘libavcodec.dll’ in ‘All Files and Folders’, and was told that it could be found in C:Program FilesK-Lite Codec Packffdshow. I also searched for ‘liba52.dll’ and got the same result. I followed that route, and sure enough, found both programs, plus 15 others that all bore the same icon, namely a sheet of paper with two gears on it. Edited on 06/18/2011 09:25 AM. |
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[post:519#5129]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
When I ask WMP to play V_Alone_with_audio.avs, I get a warning that ‘The selected file has an extension (.avs) that is not recognized by Windows Media Player, but the player may still be able to play it’. I tell it to do so, and find that the audio seems perfectly normal! Volume may be a little low, but I think just turning up the volume on a TV set would fix this. I also notice that there are now two Haali Media Splitter icons on the task bar. I also notice that the video seems to be showing something like every other frame, which is imperfect but much better than the ‘still photo mode’ that happened earlier. |
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[post:519#5131]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
As you do have "libavcodec.dll" in the correct place I'm a bit surprised that you don't get it as option for decoding AC3 via ffdshow. But maybe your file version is ancient? When I select the file "libavcodec.dll" in Windows Explorer, it is "3,02 MB" large with "last modification date: 09.10.2010".
Regardless whether the above further improved your situation: If the audio from the AviSynth script seems acceptable then let's try working with it. How would we do that?
Edited on 06/18/2011 07:52 PM. |
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[post:519#5133]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
Actually, volume seems to be satisfactory when I play V_Alone_with_audio.avs, using WMP and with AC3Filter still disabled, so I’d rather not fool with it. Video, however, has gone back to ‘still photo’ mode, that is only showing every tenth (or is it hundredth) frame instead of around half of them. Maybe this is because my PC is doing something else which requires a good deal of memory. Edited on 06/19/2011 07:36 PM. |
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[post:519#5135]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
My guess is that yes, disabling AC3Filter made the difference, visible by letting the blue icon appear and the audio quality improve, now that ffdshow/liba52 is doing the job. You're free to enable AC3Filter again in K-lite and check the quality of the audio in the AviSynth script, now that you know how to do that.
Edited on 06/20/2011 06:37 PM. |
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[post:519#5136]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
Unfortunately, when I tried to play the new DVD on a DVD Player, I got the message "This format cannot be played". I tried it on a second player and this time it just froze up with the timer at '0000'. I'm sure I performed both the Resize and Compression steps. Here's what MediaInfo has to say about the V_Alone_with_audio.avs (now avi) episode: |
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[post:519#5137]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
Just as I thought: The video is okay, the audio is still 5.1 channels and thus three times as large as I hoped for, and probably unplayable on your SAP because of this. Edited on 06/21/2011 01:00 PM. |
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[post:519#5139]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
When I double-click the ffdshow icon while playing the show, I am automatically taken to 'ffdshow video Decoder Configuration'. I don't see any option to change to audio mode. By going through All Programs/K-Lite/Configuration/ffdshow I am able to reach 'ffdshow Audio Decoder Configuration'. But when I select 'mixer ouput' (there doesn't seem to be a plain 'mixer' option anywhere), and 'apply' the change, nothing seems to happen--just 'apply' is lowlighted and no longer an option. Somehow I can't find my way to the same display with the six tracks on them. |
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[post:519#5142]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
You seem to have a different ffdshow version. (Scroll down on the left side, select "About"; on the right side a text should appear beginning with "ffdshow tryouts rev3611 Oct 9 2010".) |
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[post:519#5145]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
I see now that I have been confused because the ffdshow icon I have been seeing is the video one--when I place my cursor on it, the words 'ffdshow video decoder' appear. But there is no red here--it is just white letters 'FF' and black letters too small to read (presumably 'dshow') beneath them. Since the taskbar background is blue, that seems to be their background color as well. The only way I can get to 'ffdshow audio decoder' is via 'All Programs'. Clicking on 'About' there takes me to a display entitled 'ffdshow version Nov 17 2006 14:30:20 (msvc 2003, x86, unicode)'. Clicking the word ‘mixer’ (I guess ‘output’ was something else that just didn’t have a checkbox?) takes me to a display of 36 rectangular boxes, with both rows and columns labeled L,C,R,SL,SR, and LFE. This is ‘ffdshow audio decoder configuration’. But none of the boxes has anything in it, so I don’t see any number 1s. I click ‘apply’, but still nothing appears. Edited on 06/22/2011 07:06 PM. |
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[post:519#5147]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
My version of the "Mixer" configuration has a dropdown menu "output speaker configuration" with already predefined mixer matrix settings, one of these being "2/0/0 Stereo". It should look like this. If "2/0/0 Stereo" isn't selected already then select it and "Apply"; in any case now set the checkbox for "Mixer". ffdshow audio decoder: And something close to this would be what you should get, as "PCM stereo" could then be handled by Switch whereas "PCM 5.1" results in the seiyuu voices getting lost. ("↗PCM" is another name for "uncompressed audio".) Edited on 06/23/2011 11:59 AM. |
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[post:519#5148]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
Ah, I think I have finally found some of what you want. The closest match I can find is ‘2/0 - stereo’ I applied this, then unchecked and rechecked ‘Mixer’ and applied that as well. At first nothing happened, but when I clicked on ‘Custom Matrix’, numbers appear in the rectangular boxes. In each box which has the same vertical and horizontal label, like row SL meets column SL, the number 1 appears. Everywhere else is a zero. This is too orderly—a diagonal line of ones through a field of zeroes. I doubt if it will tell you much. I don’t know if any AviSynth & ffdshow downmixing to 2.0 stereo is taking place. I assume the idea is for me to run this through VirtualDubMod and see what happens, so I have begun doing that. MAISM. Edited on 06/23/2011 05:23 PM. |
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[post:519#5150]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
The "diagonal line" of "1" values is not what you want - because it means that every input channel would simply be mapped to the corresponding output channel, i. e. mixing 5.1 to 5.1 and no downmixing at all.
If you did "Apply" any unwanted changes to the matrix, you might try the "Reset" button at the top of this dialog which should reset all matrix settings to the default values which should be usable for your purpose already. It is okay that selecting "2/0 stereo" has no obvious effect at first (other than changing the tooltip info for the "blue icon" as I posted already, do you see this as well? Your ancient ffdshow version from 2006 may not have this tooltip though). Downmixing doesn't change the format of the audio stream (which is "uncompressed" at this stage), only the number of channels. So if 5.1 = 6 channels took a BitRate of 6 * 768 = 4608 kbps then stereo = 2 channels must take a BitRate of 2 * 768 = 1536 kbps. I have no explanation for an 128 kbps audio stream at this stage (you didn't do any compression to MP3 yet!), only that this might be the default BitRate for an empty stream and your "Mixer" configuration currently suppresses all channels instead of mapping 5.1 to 2.0, thus causing the AVI result to be mute. Edited on 06/24/2011 08:37 PM. |
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[post:519#5155]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
So, are you saying that what I need is a matrix like this? |
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[post:519#5157]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
Close, but no cigar. Your choice of rows is correct but your columns contain too many "1" values. The "0" values that I colored yellow are there for a reason.
L C R SL SR LFE 1-1-0-1--0--1--L 0-0-0-0--0--0--C 0-1-1-0--1--1--R 0-0-0-0--0--0--SL 0-0-0-0--0--0--SR 0-0-0-0--0--0--LFE Does your ffdshow configuration lack the "Reset" button on the top? Using this would be much easier than defining your own matrix. Which kind of speakers does your TV set have: "Stereo" or "5.1"/"Surround"? I assumed "Stereo" so far (which means that "MP3 with 2.0 channels" would be your format of choice) but if your hardware would happen to support 5.1 audio and modern fansubs begin to actually support 5.1 audio we might begin to question the whole conversion procedure and consider using different stream formats. Then again, the conversion result can only be as good as the weakest link in the chain which may well be your DVD player (at my place it is the DVD player, being not capable of playing anything beyond 720px width and thus a candidate for replacement in the near future). Edited on 06/25/2011 02:33 PM. |
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[post:519#5159]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
Like this, then? |
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[post:519#5160]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
Your matrix now looks identical to mine; if that's the set of channels that you see moving in the "Volume" display, then go ahead and try the next encoding.
As for the nature of problem - you are experiencing two different problems:
And you said your Philips player actually supports AC3? I never thought of this possibility. If that's true then you might be able to use the extracted AC3 stream from the MKV container without any conversion - just import it into your VirtualDubMod encoding procedure as if it were an MP3 stream. Apparently AVI may contain AC3 streams: Just now I created an AVI container containing a 5.1 AC3 audio stream with VirtualDubMod on my PC and MPC can play the result without any problem; you may try doing so, burn the result on a DVD, and feed it to your Philips player. If your Insignia player is this one then it supports MP3 and ↗WMA but no AC3, and certainly not 5.1 audio. Edited on 06/25/2011 04:23 PM. |
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[post:519#5165]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
My entertainment station downstairs consists of just a large TV set and DVD players, without any auxiliary speakers. When I select 2/0 – Stereo, set the new custom matrix, and Apply, then play V_Alone_with_audio.avs using VirtualDubMod, the audio is sporadic—not quite acceptable again. The only thing that happens when I place my cursor on the ffdshow blue icon is that ‘ffdshow audio decoder’ appears. Somehow I can’t figure out how to get back to the ‘volume’ display from the matrix one. |
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[post:519#5167]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
Now that you apparently downmixed the 5.1 audio to 2.0, and get a result that's still not acceptable, I'm beginning to run out of ideas. Part of this is due to many messages on your PC being different from their equivalent on my machine, which I believe to be the result of you running a K-lite installation from around 2006.
Motivated by our discussion, and using a Philips DVD player myself, I just tried the above and played an AVI container with AC3 5.1 audio stream there. And to my positive surprise, it works - my Philips DVP3040 plays the file correctly, with both background music and seiyuu voices. With six channels instead of just two the file gets a bit larger than the MP3 variant, and my TV set can't benefit from the additional audio features, therefore I won't make this my permanent format of choice for the time being; still, it's a new information for me that my DVD player can downmix 5.1 audio to 2.0 audio as the manual doesn't even mention 5.1 audio at all. Edited on 06/27/2011 11:18 AM. |
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[post:519#5177]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
OK, I will update my K-Lite package. Do you think that the Basic version would be good enough? |
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[post:519#5181]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
K-lite: That's exactly the point - I don't know which "variant" you already have installed, and I don't know whether you can find this out on your PC. I'd suggest installing the same "variant" your already have to give you a minimal change on your PC, neither lacking components that you rely on nor drowning you in additional components. Does your K-lite installation perhaps have its own "update" feature?
If you want to fix this then try re-encoding one of these "mute" episodes, but in Switch, load the audio stream, and before starting the "Convert", click on "Encoder Options" for your "Output Format: .mp3", and enable "Variable Bitrate (VBR)" instead of "Constant Bitrate (CBR)". (The other settings should be okay with default values, they're fine-tuning the trade-off between quality and file size.) And if this works for your Philips player, try playing the file on your Insignia player as well, in order to find out whether you can create MP3 streams that run on both of your players, without having to set the Switch settings back and forth depending on the device you want to use for playing this particular encoding. Edited on 06/27/2011 07:59 PM. |
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[post:519#5184]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
I can't find any update feature in my K-Lite pack, so I was going to attempt to download the 'Basic' version on top of the old one (FAQ said that this would probably work and I need not uninstal the old one). But whenever I click on 'Download the Basic version' I seem to be transferred to an ad for something else--like 'Windows Internet Explorer 8' or 'Insta Codecs'. There is no longer any mention of K-Lite Basic, and I wonder if I would really be getting what I asked for, or something completely different. |
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[post:519#5185]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
As I posted before, you're not merely using K-lite for watching anime but for encoding (to AVI, XviD, MP3), therefore I'd recommend the "Full" version to make sure you get everything you're already using (AC3filter is only part of the "Full" variant so you apparently have been using this one so far). Edited on 06/29/2011 03:30 PM. |
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[post:519#5187]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
I attempted to download the Full K-Lite version and was told that I had to uninstal my old K-Lite pack before I could instal the new one. I closed down my Windows Internet Explorer according to the instructions. But when I attempt to instal the new pack, I get the message 'File "C:Program FilesK-Lite Codec Packunins000.dat" does not exist. Cannot Uninstal'. I restarted the computer as a whole, and still I get the same message. Edited on 06/29/2011 07:28 PM. |
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[post:519#5189]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
When you resized the A-Channel episode, did you add the MP3 stream unchanged? (If so, then I'd be mystified as for which MP3 streams your Philips device plays and which it doesn't.)
Edited on 06/29/2011 08:22 PM. |
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[post:519#5191]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
The K-Lite Codec Pack is stored at My ComputerLocal Disk (C):Program Files. How do I tell where the installer assumes it to be? At that location there is ‘unins000.exe’ with a size of 798KB created on 12/6/2006 at 1:37 PM and modified on 12/6/2006 at 1:2… (modified before it was created?). If I attempt to open it I get the message that the unins000.dat can’t be uninstalled since it doesn’t exist. Edited on 06/29/2011 09:36 PM. |
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[post:519#5193]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
Philips DVD player: I still don't know which MP3 audio stream is in your "resized" A-Channel episode 5. MediaInfo data, please? ("Constant Bit Rate" resp. "Variable Bit Rate" would be sufficient.)
Edited on 06/30/2011 01:29 PM. |
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[post:519#5195]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
A-Channel must have had constant bitrate, since I converted it long before I even knew that variable bitrate existed. Edited on 06/30/2011 04:00 PM. |
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[post:519#5197]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
I give up on trying to understand your Philips player. ;-( Edited on 06/30/2011 06:45 PM. |
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[post:519#5206]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
Sorry this has taken me so long. I moved K-Lite 280f from Iomega to the main computer. I uninstalled Haali—I think—except at All Programs/K-Lite Codec Pack/Configuration there is still a display entitled ‘Haali Media Splitter Properties’. There doesn’t seem to be much to it. though—just the title, designer’s name, copyright date, and ‘options’ that include ‘compatibility’, ‘input’, ‘output’, ‘languages’, ‘interface’, ‘HTTP reader’, and ‘explorer integration’. Hopefully this is just some leftover. At least I didn’t get any more messages saying that I still needed to uninstall Haali. I clicked on your link to K-Lite 7.20 and began installing it. I was told to close Windows Explorer (Mikomi), which I did. I got the message that my old K-Lite pack was incompatible with the new one and asking me if I wanted to uninstall it, and I clicked on ‘yes’. This time I got a new message which recommended that I uninstall ‘DirectVobSub’; the message said that 7.20 would be able to do the same things, so I approved the uninstalation. I also needed to verify that I wanted to uninstall, which I did, then closed the DirectVobSub uninstall program once it said the task had been completed. This took me pack to the K-Lite Codec Pack 7.20 (Full) installation program. I approved ‘Advanced Install (show all options)’ since that was the choice of default. I also approved the default choices of where 7.20 should be installed, which components should be installed, where shortcuts should be placed, and the options for configuring the chosen components. There was a message about ‘Internal DXVA Decoders’, but those seem to be found only in computers built in 2008 or later, so I doubt if it applies to mine. If they are missing decoding seems to automatically take place elsewhere, and they sound like they might be troublesome anyway. I clicked ‘Next’. I approved ‘File Associations’ (whatever those are) with MPC rather than WMP. The next display confused me. The default choice for ‘File Extensions’ seems to be every possible kind of video, but only one kind of audio: ‘Playlist File Extensions/mpcpl’. Rather than fool with something I know nothing about, I clicked on ‘Next’ yet again. Next, I approved the default choice for File Extensions regarding Thumbnail Generation. Next, under ‘Speaker Configuration’ I approved 2.0 (stereo). Here there was an option for 5.1 Surround, but I presume that would be meaningless since my TV set doesn’t have a fancy set of extra speakers. Finally, I was told that Installation was ready to begin and I told the computer to begin. I needed to close the original K-Lite 7.20 website to proceed. Before long I was told that the process was done. There was an option to configure ffdshow audio and video decoders, plus DirectVobSub, but I left those alone and clicked ‘Finish’. I was immediately taken to an ad for K-Lite Codec Pack 7.2.5! I felt that I had done enough updating already and would wait to see what your thoughts were. What do you recommend I do next, to test the new codec pack? |
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[post:519#5208]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
"Windows Explorer" is the program where you navigate through the folders of your PC, not "Internet Explorer" where you navigate through the WWW (such as "Mikomi"), so I'm surprised that you needed to close the latter. But in Windows, both programs are closely interrelated so who knows. (The reason why you had to close the Windows Explorer is probably because Windows Explorer is responsible for handling file associations and the installation process was about to change these and a restart was necessary in order to make the changes known to Windows Explorer.)
Edited on 07/03/2011 08:57 PM. |
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[post:519#5214]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
If I remember correctly, AC3 filter is enabled and disabled within Codec Tweak Tool. I found that this had been redesigned and had become more complicated. Looking for the word ‘Filter’ at the ‘Codec Tweak Tool 4.9.5’ table of contents I found ‘DirectShow Filter Configuration’, ‘Manage DirectShow Filters’, and ‘Manage Source Filters’. The only one of these three options where I found a mention of AC3 was under ‘Manage 32-bit DirectShow Filters’. There, under ‘Enable the following inactive filters’ (the place where I expected to find what I was looking for) there was no mention of AC3. The only reference to AC3 came under ‘Disable the following inactive filters’ where there was ‘AC3 File {ac3file.ax}’. Does that mean that the filter has already been re-enabled by default? Or am I looking in the wrong place? As of yet I have done nothing for fear of screwing up. |
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[post:519#5221]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
I have no idea how K-lite configuration dialogs look like. But from your description it seems that K-lite enables AC3filter as installation default.
Edited on 07/04/2011 07:08 PM. |
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[post:519#5227]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
I attempted to play the Votoms Alone Again AC3 audio track using Switch. The warning ‘Format may not be supported’ is still present. As before, Switch paused for awhile, but once it finally began playing the audio seems perfectly acceptable. Next, I instructed Switch to convert the file to mp3 and overwrite the already existent mp3 track. I notice that the AC3 track has a different icon now, Windows-like one. When finished, I played it with MPC. All seems well! Voices, BGM, sound effects are all present. The ultimate test will be to run it through VirtualDubMod and see how it plays on the DVD player. If only I hadn’t done everything possible to avoid a major change in my computer’s programming… |
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[post:519#5229]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
If you have set Switch back to "constant bit rate" for the MP3 encoding then from this point on nothing can go wrong any more; the MP3 stream isn't changed by VirtualDubMod, only inserted into the AVI container (whereas the video stream is changed in VirtualDubMod because someone has to resize the screen resolution and add the subtitles).
Does your updated MPC now have the menu entry "File" / "Properties" / "MediaInfo"? Edited on 07/05/2011 01:04 AM. |
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[post:519#5231]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
I realized that Switch was still set for Variable BitRate Encoding, so I switched it back to Constant Rate and repeated the experiment. The sound is the same, correct and normal. Since Switch is set for ‘output to same folder as source files’, and I instructed it to overwrite the already existent audio stream, whatever mp3 audio track exists there will be the result of my last test run, right? The only (slight) problem is that volume is a little low, but I think turning up the volume on the TV set would be perfectly adequate to fix this. In fact, my experience in the past has been that almost all anime are far too loud compared to ordinary TV programs, and I have made a habit of turning the volume down to about half the normal level while watching fansubs. I now get MPC ‘Home Cinema’, whatever that means. It turns out that I do have a File/Properties/MediaInfo capability—it’s sort of a shorter version of the data I get from the old MediaInfo program. Here’s what it had to say about Votoms Alone Again: |
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[post:519#5233]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
Here at my place, my TV satellite signal is louder than the audio signal from my Philips DVD player, and the speakers are louder than my headphones (which I'm using for many anime in order to get the full stereo experience for good music), so I'm used to changing the volume settings on my TV set every time. Edited on 07/05/2011 02:54 PM. |
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[post:519#5235]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
Well, now when I do a test run of Alone Again on VirtualDubMod (I haven't converted it, I'm just trying to see if voices and video are in sync), I get a terrible start-and-stop quality. Every second or so both the audio and video pause abruptly; just for an instant, but it messes up the 'flow' of the show. I have already converted several new Summer series fansubs since updating K-Lite, and there were no problems with those. It's as if we are back at square one: there's something about Votoms Alone Again which is more complicated than the average fansub and the usual techniques just don't work here. |
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[post:519#5241]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
And you're sure it's not just the DVD you're using? Rewritables don't live forever, and videos "hanging" might be the result of the DVD player having to retry the read operation for a sector on the disk. |
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[post:519#5242]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
What I meant was, I haven't burnt Alone Again onto a DVD yet (not since the K-Lite update, that is) because the results I get when I play it on VirtualDubMod are poor and I assume I would get the same if I did burn it and play it on a DVD player. Should I go ahead anyway? I'm not using rewritable DVDs. |
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[post:519#5244]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
How can you "play" a video on VirtualDubMod? You're reading the AviSynth script with the aforementioned huge data masses (uncompressed video) so you can never expect VirtualDubMod to behave like a video player in terms of "real time performance". That's exactly the same as when you directly play the AviSynth script with MPC. Edited on 07/05/2011 09:50 PM. |
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[post:519#5245]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
OK, while I was waiting for your reply I started the VirtualDubMod conversion process, and once it is finished I will check the final result with MPC and/or WMP, and if all is well, burn it. Edited on 07/05/2011 10:02 PM. |
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[post:519#5248]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
Good news! Alone Again, on a DVD, plays normally on both the Insignia and Philips players. So does every other fansub I included on the disc, which is the first to be burned since the K-Lite update. Edited on 07/07/2011 11:26 AM. |
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[post:519#5250]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
I think TV airings are less likely to have 5.1 sound compared to movies/OVA, and Votoms belongs to the latter. (The 5.1 reference material that I was using for my tests is Suzumiya Haruhi no Shoushitsu.) The idea of 5.1 surround sound is to assume you actually have six speakers in an appropriate arrangement around the consumer which you can guarantee in a cinema hall while not many private households have a home cinema set already. There might be some pay tv programs already using 5.1 sound but I don't know for sure. BluRay releases are even using ↗7.1 sound already, so expect this to occur in the near future (Evangelion Shin Gekijouban: Ha uses ↗6.1 audio, I have yet to find a 7.1 anime release though). Edited on 07/08/2011 01:06 AM. |
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[post:519#5252]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
Actually, the new-technology-suddenly-coming-along theory was more about why fansubs seemed to abruptly lose audio on the Philips player than about Alone Again. The only other explanation I can think of is that one of the 'updates' that Windows occasionally performs on my computer might have somehow altered something--I know that's unlikely. Edited on 07/08/2011 12:58 PM. |
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[post:519#5254]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
You're converting AC3 to MP3 on your PC already, so if the MP3 stream plays on your PC then AC3filter can't be responsible any more. Edited on 07/09/2011 05:47 AM. |
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[post:519#5256]
Stretch Reviews: 2085 Posts: 1346 |
Well, so far everything seems to be working normally again. I can't explain why fansubs on the Philips player regained audio, but I certainly won't complain about it. Thanks again for all your time and trouble; I had thought that this was a relatively simple problem (and maybe it would have been if I hadn't procrastinated for so long about updating K-Lite). Sorry about that. Hopefully I won't be needing to add anything else to this topic--at least not until my current technology is rendered obsolete and I am left wondering what's going on! |
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[post:519#5259]
Devil Doll Reviews: 365 Posts: 1574 |
Well, it helped me to learn a few things about 5.1 audio, about downmixing in Windows, and even about K-lite. Feel free to ask again whenever necessary. |
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